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Autor Tema: RAQUEL  (Leído 42466 veces)

Desconectado Raquel

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Re:RAQUEL
« Respuesta #200 en: Junio 20, 2017, 02:31:12 pm »
Sure! Thanks, Mike! For the offer and for the encouragement. The reason why I started writing in Spanish here was so that no one 'learnt' my mistakes, but I can certainly use the practice.

When you say your daughter's language ability wasn't as good as Laura's at her age, you mean in English, right? I bet her Spanish was as good as any other child's her age. If Laura could communicate better in either Spanish or English, I wouldn't worry.

Cita de: Mike
De lo que leo de tu inglés, me parece un nivel muy alto y desarrollado. Si tu pronunciación es buena, ¿cómo se puede separar tu inglés del mío lingüísticamente?
Thanks. I do love the language and try to learn as much as possible, but getting to the point where you feel as comfortable as a native speaker seems like an utopia to me. You live in Spain and your command of Spanish is great, but... do you think you and I can't be told apart when speaking Spanish, linguistically speaking? It would take you 2 seconds to know I'm a non-native.

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¿Cuatro palabras más que conozco yo y tú no?
Many! It may seem like I can communicate in English easily, and I'm not complaining, for a non-native, but I'd bet you know at least twice as many words as I do. I'm used to speaking with adults. My friends are sometimes amazed I know a certain word, but I don't know many everyday words because of not living in an English environment. Some words/concepts I learnt these past years have been simple ones like: lid, flip over, scoop up, turn on/off the faucet, scoot over, the right side up, bottle top, teething, teeth come IN (not OUT, unless you're losing a tooth), take that!... The other day I saw a funnel -which I just looked up again- and I wondered what its name was in English. Words aren't the worst part; it's the not knowing what word to use with some things, like "bote de crema". Today, I said "bottle", but then asked our American girl whether that was right. I've been saying "container" when it doubt because it works for everything.

And then I'm often in the middle of a sentence, speaking with my daughter, and I go: "the, ummmm..... uhhhh... [word I couldn't remember]".

I'll just have to keep on practising and learning until it gets better. The funny thing is my husband, whose English is more basic than mine, doesn't feel limited. I think I have a greater need of communicating, and doing so more in depth, than he does.
« Última modificación: Junio 21, 2017, 01:10:58 pm por Raquel »


Desconectado dvenezuela

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Re:RAQUEL
« Respuesta #201 en: Julio 15, 2017, 12:59:21 am »
Buenas!

El miedo a que se “pierda” el inglés, con la llegada del colegio y la interacción que esto implica,  es  igual para todos los que estamos en este reto de criar un niño bilingüe, en donde al parecer,  todo lo que rodea a nuestro hijo conspira en contra de nuestros esfuerzos.

Yo tengo una niña que está cumpliendo 3 años esta semana y hasta los momentos su uso del inglés es en un 95%. Ella entiende todo lo que le dice la mama (quien le habla en español) y puede seguir sus instrucciones en el día a día, pero sus respuestas son exclusivamente en inglés. Solo repite en español cuando escucha alguna palabra que le llama la atención, o con una sonrisa pícara, cuando  me dice “daddy it is not milk is leche” (o algo parecido) para que yo le diga que no entiendo eso de “leche” o “cambur” o “queso”.

Acá en Venezuela, los colegios bilingües son muy escasos (como muchas otras cosas) e igual de difícil es encontrar una persona que hable inglés nativo.    Es posible que muy pronto todo su inglés quede relegado a un segundo puesto,  pero al ser una lucha asimétrica, que no podremos ganar, debemos tratar de  minimizar los efectos de esta derrota tratando de que el “inglés” siempre sea algo especial.

Daniel


Desconectado Raquel

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Re:RAQUEL
« Respuesta #202 en: Julio 18, 2017, 12:16:53 pm »
Muy cierto, Daniel. Por cierto ¡Enhorabuena por ese 95% en inglés! Con eso tienes media batalla ganada, porque su primer idioma es ahora el inglés, con 3 años. Es cuestión de tiempo que pase a serlo el español -y este es el objetivo, claro-, pero es en estos años en que los padres tenemos tanta importancia para los niños, en los que podemos aprovechar a meter todo lo que podamos de un segundo idioma. Luego los amigos y el entorno 'take over' y los niños se centran en hablar el idioma del entorno, que se convertirá en su primer idioma.

Si te consuela, nuestros colegios bilingües tienen poco de bilingües, la verdad, así que tampoco os perdéis mucho. Es verdad que tener un nativo que te eche una mano da tranquilidad, pero tampoco lo veo imprescindible. Si tú te manejas bien con el idioma, y seguro que es así, y no tienes problemas para comunicarte con tu hija, pues ya está. Al final nosotros también vamos aprendiendo con ellos y adaptándonos a sus necesidades según se van haciendo mayores.

¡Bienvenido!

Desconectado Raquel

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Re:RAQUEL
« Respuesta #203 en: Julio 21, 2017, 12:15:05 pm »
Today our American nanny/friend (Chelsea) told me that they went to the zoo the other day and when they were in a playground there is, there was an English family, but Laura kept trying to speak Spanish to them, including their little girl. Chelsea told Laura to speak English with them to no avail; she would speak Spanish to them and English to Chelsea, haha. The parents said to Chelsea that it was okay, that she was just learning, but Chelsea told them Laura's first language was actually English. It surprised me since my dad, the only person who sometimes speaks English and sometimes Spanish to her, says she'll answer in whatever language he uses, but I guess the connection children-Spanish is too strong in my daughter's mind to follow the speak-in-what-you're-spoken-in rule. This convinced me even more, if that's even possible, that this summer's short trip to England is what she needs. I just hope she'll speak English to the children she meets there!

Desconectado Mike

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Re:RAQUEL
« Respuesta #204 en: Julio 24, 2017, 03:33:14 pm »
Mmm. Interesting.

Laura is still very little and possibly learnt behaviour is still stronger than reason at her age ie. children = Spanish association despite telling Laura they were English. I imagine that only when Laura realizes she's drawing a blank and getting nowhere speaking in Spanish will she change over. I hope you provide us with a little "write up" about your English trip to the UK and the linguistic happenings.

Mike   ;)


Desconectado Raquel

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Re:RAQUEL
« Respuesta #205 en: Julio 24, 2017, 07:46:57 pm »
Very true. I read the other day about a family (2 Brits living in Spain with their son) who said their son wouldn't speak English to children from age 3 to age 5, even if these children only spoke and understood English. I hope this is not the case with Laura!!

Mike, her learned behaviour is definitely stronger than reason for Laura. She's still very little and there are many times when I tried to explain something to her and I get a blank expression from her, followed by one of her random thoughts.

I'll be more than happy to let you know all about our trip to England this summer *crossing fingers she gets to play with other children in English*

Well, I wanted to share something funny that she said yesterday. I sometimes worry that with just 2 people -well, now 3 with Chelsea- who speak English in her life, there are many expressions and words she doesn't understand. She's been using -and missusing- lots of words she's heard on TV or she's heard when we read them books. Well, yesterday, she wanted to put on one of her costumes, her "Cinderella dress":

Laura: Mommy, may I put on this dress?
Me: It's too hot, Laura. If you put it on, you'll be hot. But if you still want to wear it, be my guest.
Laura: [thinks for a little while] Mommy, I think I want to be your guest.
So there was I, trying not to laugh, but failing at it  ;D ;D ;D Then I told her that was just an expression that meant she could do whatever she wanted about the dress.

Don't be too impressed by that "may I" construction: 1) because I'm just paraphrasing and 2) because we make her use it all the time when she wants something, i.e. "may I have milk" instead of "I want milk". She used to say "I have milk" when she was younger.

Desconectado Mike

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Re:RAQUEL
« Respuesta #206 en: Julio 31, 2017, 05:55:12 pm »
Lovely anecdote!  ;D

Mmm. I think the teaching of civil English is not just a nicety but essential for correct colloquial English. My daughter definitely says "please" and "thank you" more than the equivalents in Spanish. This "polite" language is part of the way the English speak and not "cursilandia" as some Spanish onlookers have commented. Carmen also says "Can I / May I be excused?" after a meal together with us.

Mike  ;)

Desconectado Raquel

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Re:RAQUEL
« Respuesta #207 en: Agosto 03, 2017, 02:19:21 pm »
I agree that English is more polite than Spanish, by far!! There are lots of cultural aspects to take into account when learning a language, and this one is definitely one of these.

I see Spanish children saying "mamá, quiero...", when an adult would always say something nicer like "mamá ¿Me pasas...?", which isn't nearly as polite as you'd say the same thing in English, but definitely nicer than "quiero". I don't know if part of the reason why we insisted on her being polite when asking for things was that English is a more polite language or if it was just that we feel she's old enough to speak more correctly... It could also be that, because we're speaking in our 2nd language, we analyze more the language aspect.

"May I be excused?" Wow!! You can imagine how overly polite that sounds to my Spanish ears, but I love it!! I'll keep it in mind for when my daughter is a bit older... at the moment, I would be happy if she could remain seated for a whole meal  ;D

Desconectado Mike

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Re:RAQUEL
« Respuesta #208 en: Agosto 03, 2017, 06:39:51 pm »
Interestingly, it's what we had to say when we were children. One seems to continue the same moral and lexical tradition. That's an aspect you obviously lack by having switched languages. (Of course, I don't mean that as a negative point but just as a very influential linguistic factor.) It makes me realize just how much of what Carmen has learnt and how she behaves is a simple transference of my own parents values and associated language. Many of these phrases are almost automatically produced on my part. As a parent, I look for parent language to use and that's the only reference I have. In other words, many of the platitudes, sayings, domestic phraseology especially I use with Carmen are copied directly from my childhood days. I imagine you too tranfer values from your own parents to your children but of course not the associated language. I think this is an important point and makes your attempt to bring up a child speaking in English doubly effortful, doubly admirable.

I need to make a note of this language and publish it here.

Mike

Desconectado Raquel

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Re:RAQUEL
« Respuesta #209 en: Agosto 04, 2017, 10:49:35 pm »
Interestingly, it's what we had to say when we were children.
Well, of course!! Don't we all do that? I feel that I translate or adapt to the English way of saying things all the things I was told as a child.

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That's an aspect you obviously lack by having switched languages.
Exactly!! And this is what makes it so difficult! Learning vocabulary is easy compared to knowing what to say in each situations, especially the ones you are never exposed to, as we -parents speaking a second language to their children- never had the chance of learning what all the parenting sayings/vocabulary.

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I think this is an important point and makes your attempt to bring up a child speaking in English doubly effortful, doubly admirable.
I don't know how admirable it is, but it IS hard  ;)

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I need to make a note of this language and publish it here.
That would be 'oh-so-helpful' and so very much appreciated, Mike! Although I imagine it would take you forever to put together all these things we're constantly saying to our children. This makes me think of a song -sung by a comedian- called "The Mom" where she says in one song many of those things that are typically said by parents... it was hilarious, but also very helpful to me!! Now I know how to say "no texting on the table" and other parenting expressions that will come in handy soon, I bet!


 

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